Clearly SOMEONE doesn't know sarcasm when he sees it. :P

-- The Original CCRGlo!

All hail and a toast to Leo Seltzer, Damon Runyon, Jerry Seltzer and Walt Harris. The originators and developers of everything all Derby is based upon. Especially Leo who had the vision to include women and Jerry who had the good sense to not remove them even when pressured to.

Now if only we could get more of those teams w/ men and women back.....

Frenzy's been a tireless supporter of WFTDA-rules boy derby for years now, and we've been close since before either one of us could stand up on skates. Boy derby owes her a considerable debt: she's a huge part of the reason Harm City Homicide has been able to play public bouts, made possible what I believe was the first male expo scrimmage before a WFTDA bout (Charm City v Ohio in February), and constantly booty-blocks us into oblivion at our Homicide practices.

She also really hates using sarcasm emoticons.

JFM

justice is the only one who can play boy derby.
everyone else- barf!

But who will you play with? I guess, yourself. :)

there ARE no female chauvinists.

The Original TXRDonald
didn't you get Rosie O'Donnell's memo? ;-)

Ok, now in all seriousness I want to make sure I am not reading this wrong. But first of all, you can not compare the Flat track roller girl (henceforth FTRG) thing to the NHL, NFL, NBA, MILB, MLS or the Lacrosse leagues. Those are PROFESSIONAL sports. Using that line of thinking women have a professional womens baseball league, the WNBA, LPGA, Pro Tennis, and formerly had whatever that Pro women's soccer league was. Under that analysis only professional sports are worthy of an expression and participation and since women have had one or more there is no reason to complain now. I doubt that was really the analysis you were trying to make though. Another difference in that of course is that all of those leagues and most sports were created by men with the intention of men playing them and women came along (though not equally) later. ROller Derby on the the other hand was created by men with the intention that men and women would be on the same stage as teammates. ironically the truly first flat track leagues were in Japan about 30 years ago and were solely men at first. But I digress.

As for most women in the culture not engaging in 'aggressive sports' that is true but most men do not either. I can often sit with a group of ten guys and few of us will be former football players, wrestlers, derby vets or the like.

For many women in Roller Derby this is the first sport they have tried (not saying most, but many). There are plenty who had no idea they were athletes until this. Now in 1952 that was a big deal, but most of these ladies now grew up in a title IX world so for those who did not do a sport before it was from lack of interest. Many other ladies in Derby have played a variety of sports before derby from soccer to rugby to football to hockey to softball to lord knows what else. For many this is another competitive challenge that feeds that spirit they have had for years.

I think you are risking some overgneralization there as clearly many are also drawn to the , (dare I say it?) theatre of it and the chance to perform in front of a crowd. Now I dont knock that because most athletes like to perform in front of a crowd.

As for the combination of sexuality, aggression and athleticism, I agree that can be compelling. But folks were not watching Joe Namath just because he could throw the rock 70 yards back then either. The selling of sexuality involving male athletes always involves emphasizing their masculinity, the selling of sexuality in female athletics often involves what the old movie moguls call a high FF(F***ability Factor). I really can not say if that is good or bad. I know I never found Billie Jean King or Martina Navritolova with high FFs (and considering their orientations they would say the same about me I am sure) but I sure know that either one in their primes would demolish Anna Kournikova so the beauty does not do much for me. Conversely, The Williams sisters turn me on and I love their style of play. Go figure.

Bottom line, there is no reason to see any gains in Men's Derby as a loss for women's, especially now. I have been aproached by guys in our area about starting a men's team, but I have stated that I would only do that once the women have their league strong enough to have a stable schedule of teams and games. I also made clear that if I did that the men would have to be willing to assist the ladies for their games and practices if need be. I think that is only fair to the ladies who started it (no Redding girls=me not seeing them= me not giving pointers=me not coaching=me not being seen coaching=me not getting asked. A whole circle of life thing I guess. Whatever, my girls come first).

Should I do that I certainly will not be doing it under WFTDA rules until necessary(i know most men do because they are WFTDA refs and coaches etc. but I really hate the lead jammer rule and a couple others. I am a relic) but will make sure the guys do all they can to help the ladies reach the WFTDA status they desire. There is more than enough pie for everyone.

Lord that was long. Sorry folks, its the lawyer in me.

We're playing a game we love. That's all. Whether it floats your boat or not is irrelevant.

Are you sure that's what you meant to say?

Thank you

Bazooka Joe
Pioneer Valley Roller Derby
Northampton, MA
http://www.pioneervalleyrollerderby.com

Derby, as opposed to his cousin griffth's roller games, prsented a much more serious looking product. As a wretling fan, think in terms of Japan's UWF back in the late 80s. The skaters often would present a straight game with other things thrown in. If you knew what you were looking for, for example you could see the difference between a playoff game in SF and an exhibition game in Connecticut. of course part of that was era as well. The Derby games in the 1950s and 1960s looked different than the ones that came in the late 70s and 80s. Derby was often reported in legitimate sports publications and news broadcasts but as more "blood and thunder" was brought in followed by the Roller games becoming the dominant image with its more WWE like aspect, well that put an end to that. In Roller Derby the Bombers, Chiefs, Pioneers, Jets, Panthers, Braves et al were all rivals in competition. In Roller games, the T-birds were heroes and everyone else was evil and that is an enormous difference in perception and reality. Charlie was right that many did not give Roller Derby attention because of the presence of women, but many more saw the women for what they were: pre-title IX inspirations who were on equal footing as the men and it was the promotors and economic realities that kept the game from being something different. Charlie was a superstar, but was something of a sexist.

As for hilarious wrestling stories back in the day lets not forget the time a fan jumped in the wrong with his gun to protect a "blind" Junkyard Dog from the fabulous Freebirds. Or the time Jim Cornette was jailed for speeding in a small town jail and heard the sheriff say, after locking him up, "Wish I could do more after what you did to the Rock N Roll express". Or the time the Memphis Police sought out Eddie Gilbert for attempted homicide after getting reports of him running Jerry Lawler over with his car. Ahhh memories.